My 10 year old is being brainwashed by neighbors

[Lisa]

Our next door neighbors have three boys, one that is the same age as my youngest son (10). He has become best friends with the youngest. The parents are ultra conservative christians. They don't believe in evolution, the earth has only been here for 5,000 years, everything in the bible is fact. They hate homosexuals, say Obama is evil and trying to destroy our country, etc. In my opinion they have very extreme beliefs. My son plays over there all the time and the parents are constantly telling him that the "rapture" is coming and only the believers will be saved. Everyone else will be tortured and go to hell. I've always told my children that everyone has different beliefs and that you should respect others beliefs. I've explained that scientifically god doesn't make since. He has been going to their youth group every week which is held at their house and last week he went to church with them and has just gone again this week. I know that he enjoys going for the social and this week he said they were going to have donuts. It's scaring me that he's getting sucked in. I want him to be able to make his own choices about what he believes, but I have to admit that it's really scaring me. He still says that he doesn't believe all of their propaganda, but I'm not really sure. I try not to put pressure on him about it, but I have to admit I would really like to. Does anybody have any advice?

[Chris]

The best you can do is educate yourself and educate him. You need to be able to explain to him that these people prey on the young because their minds are like sponges and are easily impressionable. Perhaps showing him some documentaries about their religion will open his mind a bit. For example, Jesus Camp may help to put things into perspective, it's on YouTube here YouTube - A&E Documentary - Jesus Camp (Part 1).

Also, buy him childrens books about evolution, the big bang, etc (just make sure there isn't a religious undertone because sometimes authors try to sneak things in). Explain to him that 99.999% of the scientific community is in agreement with evolution and that anyone who believes the universe is 5000 years old is easily discredited and largely laughed at by the scientific community because no matter how hard they try, they've never been able to present anything that is testable and can be replicated. Also explain to him that these people are using fear as a tactic to try and persuade him (i.e. the rapture) and that there has never ever been any evidence for any of the miracles that these Christians will try to make him believe. Moreover, you need to explain that just because other people believe things, doesn't mean they are right. Many people believed blacks were inferior but that's obviously not true, likewise, many of his friends may believe in 'creationism' and all that bs, but it doesn't make them right. You need to make him conscious of the tactics these people will use so that he can identify them when they are used. Moreover, tell him that he is lucky that he was born into a family that doesn't indoctrinate and force beliefs onto their children, and that his friends have unfortunately been born into a family that has significantly dampened their outlook on life.

In addition, these Christian friends will probably try to make him feel guilty for things that are normal, such as different feelings he will be going through. I grew up in a Christian home and went to all of these youth group things so I know what they're all about. They really give you the guilt trip and appeal to your emotions in an attempt to try and convert you. Finally, make sure he knows that its ok not to know the answer to every question. Many Christians assume to have all the answers but 99% of them don't, they just make up crap to make it appear as if they have the answers. If you ever have questions that you cannot answer, feel free to post here and many of us will try to help you out.

Here are some books I've found on Amazon (see list below), based on the reviews I think the first one is really good. The reviews say that it is great for presenting the evidence of evolution and debunking mythology about our origin in a nonoffensive manner. Perhaps you could buy a few copies and give them to your neighbours kids. Moreover, maybe you could take your neighbours kids out to some science exhibit or you yourself can create some science activities to perform. If they are taking your kid out, by all means you should be able to take their kids out to some sort of science activity that explores evolution, human origins, the cosmos, and the big bang. I'm guessing their parents wouldn't like that, and that may create an opportunity for you to show your kid that these Christians are scared of science and narrow minded.


Evolution (DK Eyewitness Books) (Hardcover) - $11.55 - Amazon.com: Evolution (DK Eyewitness Books) (9780756650285): Linda Gamlin: Books
Evolution: How We and All Living Things Came to Be (Hardcover) - $12.89 - Amazon.com: Evolution: How We and All Living Things Came to Be (9781554534302): Daniel Loxton: Books
Born With a Bang: The Universe Tells Our Cosmic Story : Book 1 (Sharing Nature With Children Book) (Paperback) - $9.95 - Amazon.com: Born With a Bang: The Universe Tells Our Cosmic Story : Book 1 (Sharing Nature With Children Book) (9781584690320): Jennifer Morgan, Dana Lynne Andersen: Books


Other books about early humans and prehistoric life:
Eyewitness: Prehistoric Life (Hardcover) - $11.51 - Amazon.com: Eyewitness: Prehistoric Life (0635517058680): William Lindsay: Books
Early Humans (DK Eyewitness Books) (Hardcover) - $10.87 - Amazon.com: Early Humans (DK Eyewitness Books) (9780756610678): DK Publishing: Books

[Rationella]

Here's an idea, Lisa. Go to some of the church meetings with your son so you can discuss specific topics with him afterwards. If there are opportunities to ask questions during the sessions at the church, then ask those questions that will help to expose the lack of research and evidence.

Also, don't be afraid to protect your son from danger. If your son wanted to attend some other function that you felt was physically dangerous, you would keep him from attending I suspect. If your son's mental and emotional well-being are at risk (and some religious groups are emotionally damaging) then you have every right and responsibility as a parent to protect your son by insisting that he not attend. Try to provide another option that will be more fun so he doesn't feel like he is being denied something he enjoys. Perhaps attending a science center event or a museum function or fossil hunting or a planetarium would interest him as much and give him the evidence he needs to make good decisions about what to believe. Our role as parents is to guide our children, just like a mother bear teaches her cubs about the dangers in the forest. We don't let them explore the world without some boundaries. When your son is well grounded in critical thinking skills that is the time for him to make decisions about what to believe. At ten years of age he is likely too impressionable and easily persuaded by peer pressure to be able to handle the pressure of this Christian group. Although the public school system (I'm assuming he attends) should help balance out the influence.

That stated, I was raised in a strict Christian environment with all sorts of misinformation about the world, but here I am today an atheist/agnostic. I studied my way out. So even if your son does adopt that religion it isn't necessarily the last religion he'll believe. Your example of questioning and using critical thinking skills will win out in the end.

[Kiefer]

If I were you I'd probably go over there and kick some ass but at the very least you should not let your child go over there. Would you let your child go over there if the parents were telling him that doing Meth was an awesome idea? Preaching religion can be just as harmful.

[Chris]

If you do stop your kid from going out with these people, you have to make sure he fully understands why. If not, it's easy for him to slip into thinking that you're hiding something from him.

[Demojen]

My son plays over there all the time and the parents are constantly telling him that the "rapture" is coming and only the believers will be saved. Everyone else will be tortured and go to hell

My advice, approach the parents and if they won't stfu. You tell them not to let your son come over, because you don't welcome their child abuse.

If they continue, file an injunction with the court to have them stop preaching to your child their beliefs or paranoid ideas. If they break that, call the police and have them arrested for contempt of court.

If they pursue your child after all of this, file a restraining order preventing them from getting within ten feet of your kid. Finally if they continue after that, you file a petition with the City/Township/Municipality to have them removed from the area.

[meezly]

wow, the range of responses was interesting indeed! although I don't have kids of my own (yet), I can imagine how totally freaked out I'd be too if I had ultra conservative Christians as my next door neighbours, and my kid was becoming best friends with their son! this would rate as one of the worst nightmares an atheist parent can have.

this is a serious dilemma and I wish I could find the article an atheist journalist recently wrote about his anxious concerns that his two kids were being converted by his ex-wife, who's Catholic, because during their visits she'd read bible stories to them, etc etc.. His first reaction was to counter his wife's religious influence by getting a bunch of atheist children's books. but in the end, he realized this was the wrong way to go. I wish I could specifically recall the details of his resolution, but the gist was that the best thing he could do was to recognize the situation and to NOT interfere. if his kids ask him questions about God or the bible, he can guide them, but if they are developing religious tendencies, he can't force them to change their minds, as it would not help his cause. he would just come across as extremely reactionary and over-protective. I know this does not sound like the greatest advice in the world, but I remember the writer's decision in the end was very wise.

the most important thing is your child, and the last thing you'd want to do is to confuse him in what is basically an ideological battlefield for the grownups, when all your son really wants is to enjoy the company of his best friend. your son sounds like a very level-headed boy. I understand you feel an urgent need to DO something, but you reacting in any extreme manner would make you look bad, even though in our eyes, you are in the right. even if he were to become a ('god' forbid) church-goer, it's not the end of the world. as an ex-christian who went thru a religious phase in my early teens, I'd say it's a good thing to understand religion from the inside, and then realize for yourself what a bunch of b.s. it is. your son has his whole life ahead of him to learn from mistakes and grow out of awkward phases. it's natural to want to protect our children from religious propaganda, but as with anything that's fundamental for growing kids, it's for them to learn for themselves.

[Chris]

wow, the range of responses was interesting indeed! although I don't have kids of my own (yet), I can imagine how totally freaked out I'd be too if I had ultra conservative Christians as my next door neighbours, and my kid was becoming best friends with their son! this would rate as one of the worst nightmares an atheist parent can have.

this is a serious dilemma and I wish I could find the article an atheist journalist recently wrote about his anxious concerns that his two kids were being converted by his ex-wife, who's Catholic, because during their visits she'd read bible stories to them, etc etc.. His first reaction was to counter his wife's religious influence by getting a bunch of atheist children's books. but in the end, he realized this was the wrong way to go. I wish I could specifically recall the details of his resolution, but the gist was that the best thing he could do was to recognize the situation and to NOT interfere. if his kids ask him questions about God or the bible, he can guide them, but if they are developing religious tendencies, he can't force them to change their minds, as it would not help his cause. he would just come across as extremely reactionary and over-protective. I know this does not sound like the greatest advice in the world, but I remember the writer's decision in the end was very wise.

the most important thing is your child, and the last thing you'd want to do is to confuse him in what is basically an ideological battlefield for the grownups, when all your son really wants is to enjoy the company of his best friend. your son sounds like a very level-headed boy. I understand you feel an urgent need to DO something, but you reacting in any extreme manner would make you look bad, even though in our eyes, you are in the right. even if he were to become a ('god' forbid) church-goer, it's not the end of the world. as an ex-christian who went thru a religious phase in my early teens, I'd say it's a good thing to understand religion from the inside, and then realize for yourself what a bunch of b.s. it is. your son has his whole life ahead of him to learn from mistakes and grow out of awkward phases. it's natural to want to protect our children from religious propaganda, but as with anything that's fundamental for growing kids, it's for them to learn for themselves.

I kind of agree, kids have a bad habit of doing everything opposite you ask of them. Maybe not younger kids but when they transition into their teens, this is probably more the case. Forcing your child away from these people I think would ultimately lead to more hardship between you and your son as he may become resentful towards you for taking his friends away. The best you can do is make sure you have the resources available for your son to learn about their religion from a non-biased perspective and then hope that he can connect the dots. The key thing is not to force the issue, because at 10 years old, it's hard to say whether he would become resentful or not. There's a certain age when a child begins to think they know better and they remember things more vigorously. If you took a five year old away from his friends, it would probably be a case where you could explain to him why and he would accept it by default of assuming you know better. But at ten years old, he may have developed enough to think he knows better than you.

You should also start reading about their religion so you can build a strong case and defence in the event that you have to discuss why their religion is wrong. If you yourself cannot present a strong argument against their beliefs, then your son definitely wont be able to. You don't have to have all the answers but you should be able to articulate some sort of clear and logical argument. I think Rationella has also presented a good idea, you should both go to the church, just make sure you don't get strong armed.

[Penguin]

Lisa,

Would you be able to have the kids get together at your house instead?

Have you tried talking to the parents about your concerns?

It may be that they're deliberately trying to convert him and won't care what you think, but it's also possible that they just don't know how you feel.

[Blondin]

I remember the article that Meezly is referring to but I can't find it either. I remember thinking how much sense it made but how it would take a lot of self-control to resist the urge to counter-propagandize the poor kid. Ultimately I think he was right. All you can do is be honest about answering questions and about what you believe (or reject) and why.

I have a nephew who was an only child and quite a handful for his single mom. They lived in a small rural community west of Toronto and his mom tried her best to raise him while working to earn a living. When he was befriended (at about age 13) by some evangelical neighbours she actually thought it might do him some good to hang out with some 'good religious folks'. For a couple of years he was a righteous little bible thumper who didn't like to hear the lords name in vain and pitied those of us who hadn't accepted Jesus into our hearts 'cause we were going to burn in hell. When he was almost 16 they moved to northern Ontario so his mum could pursue a better job.

Once he was out of that atmosphere he realized what hypocrites those people were. Nobody had to say anything to him. Once he had a chance to socialize with other kids and cousins in a more stable setting he realized that those neighbourly jezzuz-freaks were no better than anybody else and a damn sight less moral than a lot of other people. The church group he had been going to had provided some social interaction that was much needed (I won't go into details but this poor kid had a pretty rough childhood) but they were very heavy on the guilt and not associating with 'doubters'. He realized that they always found a way to use jebus to justify what ever action they wanted and some bible passage to discourage anything they didn't want to do.

That was all about 9 or 10 years ago. He is now a self-employed tradesman and in a very stable relationship with a nice girl who also has a good job. He laughs (embarassingly) now about some of the stuff he used to spew when he was younger.

One day he told me how they had really laid the guilt on him because he was a 'bastard' child. He was going to have to work so much harder to gain god's grace because of the sin he was born with. Meanwhile they bragged about cheating the government or other people out of money or cheating on their taxes but always justified it with some adage about how god helps them that helps themselves or jebus was a friend of the poor & struggling.

The point of my rambling little story is that, because he didn't get bombarded with the holy-talk from infancy and was exposed to down-to-earth, honest work ethics from his mom, all that evangelical, holier-than-thou hypocrisy and horse shit only made it clearer to him that he didn't want to be like those people.