Atheist Discussion Forum - Blogs

Hitch

Jordan0568 — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:21:14 GMT

Is it just me or is watching people debate just not the same anymore knowing that Hitch is no longer around to put people in there place face to face?

The Reality Of Hell

Raymond Sheen — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 22:42:41 GMT

The English Word Hell

The old English word hell comes from helan, and means to cover or conceal. Similar words coming from the same root have a similar meaning. Hill for example is a mound of dirt or stone that covers the level surface of earth. Hull is the covering of a nut or the covered part of a ship. Heal is the covering of a wound. Hall is a building space which is used to cover people or goods. Hole is an uncovering. Shell.

In the early days to hell potatoes meant to cover them, as to store them in a cellar or underground. To hel a house meant to cover a portion of it with tile. The term heling a house is still used in the New England portions of the United States.

At first the use of hell had no pagan meaning to it. It was simply used as the common grave of man. To go to hell in the old English language meant simply that one was dead and buried. It was in Germany and England that the word began to evolve into the pagan unscriptural meaning of eternal punishment.

Poor Modern Translation

The original meaning of the word hell is not so much a poor translation of the Hebrew sheohl (English Transliteration Sheol) and the Greek Haides (English transliteration Hades), as much as it is a case of the word having evolved into a pagan meaning; the modern day translation of hell is misleading.

The Catholic Douay Version translates sheohl as hell 64 times and once as death. The King James Version translates sheohl 31 times as hell, 31 times as grave and 3 times as pit. This is common in older translations as well, such as is used by the English Revised Version (1885) where sheohl is transliterated in many cases but most of the occurrences were translated as grave, or pit. Hell being used 14 times. The American Standard Version (1901) transliterated sheohl in all 65 occurrences and haides in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Geenna (English Gehenna) is translated hell.

The Hebrew Sheol

The Hebrew word Sheol is the unseen resting place of the dead. It is not to be mistaken for the Hebrew words for individual burial place (qever - Judges 16:31), grave (qevurah - Genesis 35:20), or individual tomb (gadhish - Job 21:32) but rather the common grave of all mankind whatever the form of burial might be.

The Greek philosophical teaching of the immortality of the human soul and hell began to infiltrate Jewish teachings probably around the time of Alexander The Great. The Bible itself, however, is in stark contrast to the teachings of pagan origin regarding the soul, which is not immortal (Ezekiel 18:4) and therefore can't suffer forever in hell. The Bible also teaches that there is no consciousness in hell. (Ecclesiastes 9:4-10).

Sheol corresponds with the Greek Hades, both being the unseen resting place of the dead. It is not a place of fire, but of darkness (Job 10:21) a place of silence (Psalm 115:17) rather than a place filled with tortured screams.

The Greek Hades

The Greek word Hades corresponds to the Hebrew Sheol as is indicated by the apostle Peter's reference to Psalms 16:10 at Acts 2:27-31 where Jesus had fulfilled David's prophecy that Jesus would not be left in hell. Peter quoted Psalms and used the Greek Hades in place of Sheol. Likewise Jesus himself said that like Jonah, he would spend three days in hell. (Jonah 1:17; Jonah 2:2 / Matthew 12:40)

The Greek word Hades occurs 10 times in the Christian Greek scriptures. (Matthew 11:23; 16:18 / Luke 10:15; 16:23 / Acts 2:27, 31; / Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13-14.

It means the unseen place. In ten of the occurrences of Hades it is in reference to death. It is not to be confused with the Greek word for grave (taphos), tomb (mnema) or memorial tomb (mnemeion), but is rather the common resting place of the dead. The place of death.

Jesus also uses Hades at Matthew 11:23 and Luke 10:15 in a figurative way to indicate the debasement of Capernaum compared to heaven.

Also see The Rich Man And Lazarus below.

The Greek Gehenna

Unlike the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades, there is really no excuse for mistaking the Greek Geenna (Hebrew Geh Hinnom - English Transliteration Gehenna) with the notion of any hell, either the old English word meaning covered or the pagan hell of today's Christianity.

The Christian Greek Gehenna is a literal place - a valley that lies South and South-West of ancient Jerusalem. It is the modern day Wadi er-Rababi (Ge Ben Hinnom), a deep, narrow valley. Today it is a peaceful and pleasant valley, unlike the surrounding dry and rocky terrain, and most certainly unlike the pagan / apostate Christian hell. (See Image Below)

In the days of unfaithful Kings Manasseh and Ahaz idolatrous worship of the pagan god Baal was conducted in the place which was then known as Geh Hinnom, (the valley of Hinnom) including human sacrifices to fire. It is ironic that the pagan custom of burning in fire, as in hell, would have so clearly infiltrated the Christian teachings, considering that this practice was a detestable thing to Jehovah God, and his prophets spoke of a time when this place would be turned into a defiled and desolate place. (2 Chronicles 28:1-3; 33:1-6 / Jeremiah 7:31-32; 32:35).

The prophecy was fulfilled in the days of faithful King Josiah, who had the place, especially the area known as Topeth polluted into a refuse heap. (2 Kings 23:10)

So it was that in the days of Jesus and the early Christian congregations, that the valley was known as a literal place where the carcasses of criminals and animals were thrown, having no hope for resurrection. The refuse there was kept burning with sulfur, which is abundant in the area. When Jesus used Gehenna as a figurative - a symbolic reference to the spiritually dead - the people in the area knew what he was talking about.
The Greek Tartarus

The Greek word Tartarus is found only once in scripture, at 2 Peter 2:4. It is often mistranslated as hell. Tartarus in the Christian Greek scriptures refers to a condition of debasement, unlike the pre-Christian pagan Tartarus (as in Homer's Iliad) which is a mythological prison. The word basically means the lowest place.

Peter refers to the angels who in the time of Noah forsook their original positions and became men in order to have relations with the women of earth. The result was their offspring being giants, the Nephilim, who caused so much destruction God had to bring forth the flood. (Genesis 6:1-4 / Ephesians 6:10-12 / Jude 1:6).

It is interesting that this verse is often mistranslated because when Jesus was resurrected from Sheol / Hades (Hell in some translations) on earth, he first went to tartarus to minister to the disobedient angels whom had been lowered in position - who happened to be in heaven in a position of debasement. This means that if you don't understand the mistranslation you would see Jesus go to hell on earth and then hell in heaven.

The Pagan Hell

The Pagan teaching of hell was adopted by the apostate Christian church. Today's thinking of hell comes more from Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, but the teaching of hellfire is much older than the English word hell or Dante and Milton. It comes from Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs of a nether world. A place where gods and demons of great strength and fierceness presided over the damned.

Ancient Egyptian beliefs considered the Other World to be a place of pits of fire for the damned though they didn't think this lasted forever. Islamic teaching considers hell as a place of everlasting punishment. Hindus and Buddhists think of hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration.

Separation From God

Modern day Christians often try to soften the teaching of hell as a separation from God, but hell (as is often translated from the Hebrew Sheol and Greek Hades) can't be a separation from God, since God is in effect there - it is in front of him. He watches Sheol for the time when the dead shall be resurrected. (Proverbs 15:11 / Psalms 139:7-8 / Amos 9:1-2).

Lazarus And The Rich Man - Luke 16:19-31

Jesus often taught people in a way which was easy for them to grasp. One way of doing this is through parables, or illustration. They are stories, which are not meant to be taken as literal accounts. Such is the case with the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Notice that the Rich man is buried in Hades. If this account is to be taken literally then the Bible would contradict itself with all of the information being given in this article, but lets not leave it up to what may be thought to be my own personal interpretation.

Let it also be known that if this account is to be taken literally then that would make Jesus a liar. How so? How could Lazarus be at the bosom of Abraham in heaven when Jesus had already said that no man had ascended to heaven other than himself? (John 3:13).

The Lake Of Fire

The lake of fire is sometimes referred to as hell. The lake of fire is obviously a symbolic reference to everlasting destruction. Since hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire they can't be one and the same. Since death is thrown into the lake of fire and death isn't something that can be thrown literally, the lake is obviously symbolic. The fact that hell and death are symbolically destroyed by fire is harmonious with the end of sin which brought death. Those not thrown into the lake of fire are the meek who will inherit the earth and live forever upon it.

Genesis Chapter 1

Raymond Sheen — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:22:57 GMT

The following are notes on Genesis Chapter 1. The numbers in the brackets correspond with the number of the verse in that chapter.

[1] The Hebrew verb consists of two different states. The perfect state indicates an action which is complete, whereas the imperfect state indicates a continuous or incomplete action.

At Genesis 1:1 the word bara, translated as created, is in the perfect state, which means that at this point the creation of the heavens and the Earth were completed. Later, as in verse 16 the Hebrew word asah, translated as made, is used, which is in the imperfect state, indicating continuous action. The heavens and Earth were created in verse 1 and an indeterminate time later they were being prepared for habitation, much the same as a bed is manufactured (complete) and made (continuous) afterwards.

[2] The planet was a water planet, waste and empty, meaning that there was no productive land. Though the sun and moon as part of the heavens were complete, at this point light had not penetrated to the surface of the Earth. Job 38:4, 9 refers to a "swaddling band" around the Earth in the early stages of creation. Likely there was a cosmic dust cloud of vapor and debris which prevented the light from the sun from being visible on the surface of the earth.

The Hebrew word ruach, translated as spirit, indicates any invisible active force. Wind, breath, or mental inclination, for example. The Holy Spirit is Jehovah God's active force. Invisible to man but producing results. Throughout scripture it is often referred to as God's hands or fingers in a metaphorical sense. (Psalm 8:3; 19:1)

[3] Here the Hebrew verb waiyomer (proceeded to say) is in the imperfect state indicating progressive action. This first chapter of Genesis has more than 40 cases of the imperfect state. The creative "days" were a gradual process of making Earth habitable.

The light was a diffused light which gradually grew in intensity. Some translations more clearly indicate the progressive action:

A Distinctive Translation of Genesis by J.W. Watts (1963): "Afterward God proceeded to say, 'Let there be light'; and gradually light came into existence."

Benjamin Wills Newton's translation (1888): "And God proceeded to say [future], Let Light become to be, and Light proceeded to become to be [future]."

The Hebrew word for light, ohr, is used. This distinguishes the light from the source of the light. Later, on the fourth "day" the Hebrew word maohr is used, signifying that the source of the light only becomes visible then through the swaddling band.

[4] Light and darkness is divided between the eastern and western hemispheres as the Earth rotates on its axis.

[5] Here the Hebrew word yohm translated day, indicates the daylight hours, but the term will be applied in the following verses to indicate various lengths of time. The word is used to describe any period of time from a few hours to thousands of years. (Zechariah 14:8 / Proverbs 25:13 / Psalm 90:4 / Isaiah 49:8 / Matthew 10:15)

The terms evening and morning are metaphoric. At this point there are no witnesses on Earth to a literal night and day, but there are witnesses in heaven. (Job 38:4, 7) The evening symbolizes the period of time in which the events unfolding were indiscernible to the angels in heaven. The morning symbolizes the period in which the angels could distinguish what had been accomplished. (Proverbs 4:18)

[6] The word expanse is translated from the Hebrew raqia, which means "spreading out." Since the root word from which raqia comes is raqa, which is sometimes used in a sense of "beating out" some confusion has been caused by the Greek Septuagint translation of raqia as stereoma, which means "firm and solid structure" concluding when the Latin Vulgate used the term firmamentum because, at that time it was thought that there was a metallic dome surrounding the earth with sluice holes from which rain fell.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia states: �But this assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the O T.� - Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314. For example, at Job 36:27-28 the water cycle is described without any reference to the Dark Ages understanding of sluice holes.

[7] In verse 6 and 7 part of the water that covers the Earth is lifted to the heavens to form a water canopy surrounding the planet. This canopy was used to flood the earth during the days of Noah. (2 Peter 3:5-6)

[11] The Biblical kind, from the Hebrew leminoh, Greek genos, and Latin genus, differs from the Evolutionist kind. The Biblical "kind" can be defined as divisions in which cross fertility can occur, a boundary between these kinds is drawn where fertilization ceases. Apple trees, for example, don�t produce broccoli, squirrels don�t produce horses.

In biology a kind applies to animals and plants which possess one or more distinctive characteristics, meaning the biological term kind may contain several varieties within a Biblical kind.

[14] The light in verse 14 is different from that in verse 3. In verse 3 the Hebrew word ohr is used, meaning the light from the source. Light in a general sense, whereas the light in verse 14 the Hebrew word maohr is used, signifying the source of the light is now visible. See [3]

The sun, moon and stars are set as a sign of the seasons, days and years. A most accurate timepiece. The use of the term �sign� is often mistaken as a reference to astrology, which is incorrect. See What The Bible Says About Astrology and Does The Bible Condemn Astrology?

[16] The Hebrew waiyaas (proceeded to make), from asah, in verse 16 is different than bara (create) in verses 1, 21 and 27. Asah is the imperfect state indicating progressive action. The luminaries as part of the heavens had already been completed in verse 1, but now they were visible on Earth and prepared for their intended use. Asah can mean make, or appoint (Deuteronomy 15:1), establish (2 Samuel 7:11), form (Jeremiah 18:4), or prepare (Genesis 21:8). Also see [1]

[20] The word soul, from the Hebrew nephesh, means "breather." The soul is in the blood, the life itself, of any breathing creature. At Genesis 9:3-4, for example, the Hebrew word nephesh can be translated as life or soul.

[21] Sea monsters, from the Hebrew tanninim, great reptiles. The Hebrew term remes means to creep or move about; an aimless movement. It covers a variety of creatures and distinguishes these animals from domestic or wild birds, beasts and fish.

[24] Cattle; domestic or tame animal (Hebrew behemah).

[25] There are two creation accounts. The first is a chronological account (Genesis 1:1-2:4) and the second is given according to topical relevance. (Genesis 2:5-4:26) They differ in order and are often wrongly thought to contradict one another.

[26] God refers to his son, Christ Jesus in his heavenly pre-human existence. (Genesis 11:7 / Proverbs 8:30 / John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16) Being made in the likeness, image or semblance of God reflects mankind's potential for being like God, possessing his qualities of wisdom, power, righteousness and love.

[27] Too often it is overlooked by selfish, dominating men that woman too were created in God�s image, and thus deserving respect.

[31] God�s creation is good. There is no sickness, disease or slow progression to death. The small area they reside in is a paradise reflective of the potential, and in fact the purpose of growing throughout the entire planet. It isn�t God�s purpose for us to live in sin on Earth and then move on to heaven.

The creative days, each of which may have lasted thousands or even millions of years, and had taken place an indeterminate period of time after the creation was complete in verse one, are not indicative of any speculation regarding the age of the Earth and universe. The Bible simply doesn�t say.

Period 1 - Light; a division between night and day (Genesis 1:3-5)

Period 2 - The Expanse; a division between waters above and beneath. (Genesis 1:6-8)

Period 3 - Dry land and vegetation. (Genesis 1:9-13)

Period 4 - Heavenly luminaries become visible from Earth. (Genesis 1:14-19)

Period 5 - Aquatic and flying creatures. (Genesis 1:20-23)

Period 6 - Land animals and man. (Genesis 1:24-31)

Fun tidbits in the Education Act

Penguin — Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:51:37 GMT

In the process of doing some research for discussions I was having about the recent protests over Muslim prayer in a Toronto school, I was perusing the Ontario Education Act when I came across these gems:

Provisions Relating to Public Boards

[...]
Same
(3) A member of the clergy may visit a public school in the area where the member has pastoral charge. 1997, c. 31, s. 27.

Duties
Duties of teacher
264. (1) It is the duty of a teacher and a temporary teacher,

[...]
religion and morals
(c) to inculcate by precept and example respect for religion and the principles of Judaeo-Christian morality and the highest regard for truth, justice, loyalty, love of country, humanity, benevolence, sobriety, industry, frugality, purity, temperance and all other virtues;

I shake my head.

Venezuela's oil reserves than Saudi Arabia as the world's "oil boss"

ErikBee — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 05:11:16 GMT

Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) released the latest data show beyond Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, the world's largest proven oil reserves of the country. However, many oil industry analysts believe that Venezuela's new mining and processing of proven crude oil is difficult and will not significantly affect the formation of the crude oil market.

OPEC's latest annual statistical report shows that in 2010, Venezuela's proven crude oil reserves of 2965 billion barrels, representing the Venezuelan government announced the end of 2009 increased 40% 2111 billion barrels, more than 2645 billion barrels in Saudi Arabia. Iran and Iraq has proven reserves in OPEC's 12 member states were ranked third and fourth.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said in January this year, Venezuela's proven crude oil reserves increased substantially more than Saudi Arabia. OPEC aspects of this argument ultimately confirmed.

Many analysts believe that Venezuela's proven crude oil production has "water" suspect; new proven crude oil and heavy oil is mainly overweight, mining is difficult and expensive. "Unlike crude oil, as excess liquidity," the U.S. energy economy is responsible for strategic research and consulting firm, said Michael Lynch, "If you transport heavy oil, you must be careful that it solidified."

Venezuela, the main reservoir zone is located in the eastern Orinoco River basin. Experts believe that the full exploitation of oil resources in the region need a lot of money, excellent technical and professional staff. Jason Schenker, an energy analyst said, to increase crude oil production, Venezuela requires cooperation with foreign oil companies. Chavez became president is committed to promoting the nationalization of the oil industry, lead to a lot of opposition. In 2003 a strike, the Venezuelan government expelled a large number of oil companies managers and staff.

Lynch believes that the crude oil market, crude oil reserves than Saudi Arabia Venezuela only symbolic significance. "If you're in charge of an oil company, you know, heavy oil reserves can not be considered." Independent analyst Andrew Li Bao hold the same view: "This is different from that of a huge new oil reserves."

In the analysts view, although the lost crude oil reserves of the "top spot", but as the largest OPEC oil producer and the largest country in redundant production capacity, Saudi Arabia in OPEC's position within the short period of time will not be shaken.

Religion's conspicuous absence in this election campaign

Penguin — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:03:56 GMT

With a Canadian federal election just a few days away, I thought I would do a blog post about the role religion has played in the platforms of the parties and the campaigns so far. However, when I went looking for the religion on the campaign trail, I discovered that it was barely to be found.

All the party leaders have had the obligatory photo-ops at various religious events, but these - such as Ignatieff and Layton's appearances at the Sikh Khalsa Day parade in Toronto - seemed to be more about reaching out to different cultures than they were about being seen as aligned with religious faith. The underlying theology was unimportant.

And as for the party platforms themselves, religion and faith barely get a mention. The only reference I could find was in the Conservative platform, which proposes to create a new Office of Religious Freedom within Foreign Affairs. While I'm still not entirely sure that this isn't a euphemism for some sort of evangelism-supporting or US-style "faith-based initiatives" program, at an estimated cost of $5 million per year, it's barely a blip in a federal budget of billions of dollars.

So what should we take from this? In the view of some, it's an indication that religion is a personal, private matter for Canadians; one recent opinion piece suggested that the Canadian political landscape has settled out with the Conservatives holding the religious vote and not needing to court it further, and the other parties not courting it because they know they can't get it.

However, I think there's a more straightforward reason for the lack of religious rhetoric in the campaign: religion is becoming increasingly irrelevant for Canadians. While most Canadians do consider themselves affiliated with some sort of religion, only 21% attend weekly religious services, and this number is dropping sharply year-over-year. A recent study predicted the impending "extinction" of religion in Canada and 8 other countries.

I think that in this country - and in sharp contrast to our neighbour to the south - religious affiliation has lost the social benefit it once did, so politicians, like Canadians in general, no longer experience the same sort of pressure to believe... or more importantly, to be seen believing.

Hopefully this means that they'll place more importance on being seen to govern.

Whence?

sienser — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 00:19:55 GMT

Since no one knows the origin of the universe, I don�t think that �creationists� delude themselves any more than atheists do about this.
Identification of the cause of the universe has so far not been achieved. To say �We don�t know� - an agnostic statement - is more reasonable than saying definitively that there is no God.
The world and universe consist of matter and energy existing in time and space and functioning within certain operating parameters such as cause and effect. Most scientists would accept that every effect has a sufficient cause.* The universe which we observe, must have a sufficient cause.
In the context of space, time and the cause and effect paradigm within which we operate, the ultimate origin or cause of the universe, must not itself have had a beginning. Otherwise the chain of causes and effects becomes infinite, negating the possibility of the universe as we know it, ever being realized. It is also necessary to posit a �First Cause� in order to confront the question about who/what caused the causer of the universe. In this inductive matrix, the name given to the cause of the universe - God, nature, evolution, big foot, etc., becomes a matter of semantics.
In his latest book, Dawkins says, � We know a great deal about how evolution has worked ever since it got started, much more than Darwin knew. But we know little more than Darwin did about how it got started in the first place. This is a book about evidence, and we have no evidence bearing upon the momentous event that was the start of evolution on this planet.�
So, in his most recent book, Dawkins acknowledges that the origin of evolution is unknown. He has not addressed here the broader question of the origin of time, space and the universe itself.
To say �There is no God� in this context is dishonest and self-delusionary.
___________________
* By �sufficient cause� I mean an agent, executor, producer, etc. that has the ability and everything required to cause or make a certain effect or result. To be able to make an effect, a sufficient cause must have the where-with-all, the material, power, intelligence, etc. which is required to make the effect.

Whence the Evil,in reply to All Atheists from up in the history down to current time

Armageddon2012 — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 09:17:32 GMT

cancelled

Atheist Discussion Forum Upgraded from vBulletin 4.0.3 to 4.0.4

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I have just completed a forum upgrade from 4.0.3 to 4.0.4. Please let me know if you notice anything that doesn't work. Below are some of the changes.

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Please note: There are 2 bugs that are inherent in the vB template that were discovered very late in the release cycle for 4.0.4, to ensure that we have our latest technical updates for you, we made a collective decision to hold off further development of these bugs, and aim to incorporate them in the next release of vbulletin:
http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/VBIV-7415
http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/VBIV-7399

As always, thank you to everyone who has filed bugs in our bug tracker, we sincerely appreciate your assistance - and we hope with this release that we have addressed a large number of the bugs that you have raised.
If you come across any bugs in the product, please continue to file them in our new tracker.

Is discrimintion against atheists permitted under the Charter?

B Roodnick — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:12:14 GMT

Atheists insist that Atheism is not religion. If this is true, then is discrimination against atheists permitted under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Obviously discrimination on that basis of religion or race etc. is prohibited, but can someone legally refuse to give you a job on the basis that you are an atheist?

How to Post Videos

Chris — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:56:59 GMT

If you would like to insert a video into your post, please follow this quick and easy step by step guide.

Step 1: Click the video tag in the post editor, it looks like this . A little "Insert video clip" window should appear within the same browser page.

Step 2: Copy and paste the video URL and post it into the pop-up window that displays. For example, a youtube url looks like "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1234567".

Step 3: Click OK.

Done.

If you would like to manually enter the video bb code into a post, it is
HTML Code:
[video]video url[/video]
Supported videos include:
Hulu
YouTube
Vimeo
Dailymotion
Metacafe
Google
facebook

Edit time and maximum character limit increased.

Chris — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:20:38 GMT

This is just a quick message to inform users that the new maximum character limit per post is 15,000 characters (up from 10,000) and the maximum time you have to edit a post is now 24 hours (previously 60 minutes).

Apparently, I have a problem with proselytizers

Penguin — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 06:20:17 GMT

So... this evening at the mall, I was approached by a guy who really wanted two things: to find out what I thought happened when we die, and to give me a pamphlet entitled "The Final Judgement".

I'm normally a pretty laid-back guy, but I got mad at him. Really mad. Our conversation started with me obviously pissed off and went downhill from there. It finally ended with me telling him that I'd go get mall security if he wouldn't leave me alone.

I can chalk some of my anger to the fact that I was already a bit annoyed (I was waiting for my wife who was running late), and to the fact that the guy was an annoying twit who wouldn't take "no" (or "I'm not interested" or "I'm really not in the mood to be proselytized to") for an answer, but I don't think that's the whole story. I think I just instinctively got mad at the idea of being evangelized to.

And it's happened before. I remember last summer, sitting on the bus when a Mormon missionary sat down and tried to strike up a conversation. He seemed really taken aback at how negatively I responded to his questions, and seemed genuinely confused when I told him that I didn't think it was right for him to be doing what he was doing.

I think that I just find proselytizing to be inherently disrespectful. When I run into it online, I can stop, take a moment (or just leave it and go on to something else) and then respond a bit more calmly, but in real life situation, when I've got someone standing in front of me waiting for a response, I don't have that luxury, so they get the unfiltered version of my opinion.

I find myself a bit disappointed in how I handle these situations. I think that at least some of them can be an opportunity for meaningful dialogue... or at least an opportunity to sharpen my argumentation skills.

Oh well. Maybe next time.

Gripes about our Catholic school system

Penguin — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:23:45 GMT

Okay... I'm generally opposed to the idea that we have a taxpayer-funded religious school system in my province, but a couple of specific things have been really bugging me lately.

First: when we got our property tax assessment, there was a new form inside... something like this (not my school board's form, but similar). Here's what it's for:

legally, property taxes from non-Catholics can't go to Catholic schools. This includes cases where a property is jointly owned by a Catholic and a non-Catholic.
however, Catholic tenants can direct their portion of their building's education property taxes toward the Catholic board.
these sorts of forms are an attempt to circumvent this. Say you're married to a Catholic. You can "lease" your house to your spouse (for a dollar a year, according to the form I received), who then can put all your education property taxes toward the Catholic board.
The forms make this out to be a formality with no effect other than where your money goes, but I don't buy that. There has to be other ramifications, doesn't there? A lease is a lease.

Meanwhile, I got to thinking. I noticed that in a lot of places, there's not a whole lot of interest in the Catholic school board, especially the French Catholic boards. Often, candidates just get acclaimed. Occasionally, seats stay vacant. I thought to myself (though not really seriously), "hmm... it might be actually possible to get an atheist onto the Catholic school board. That could be useful if you wanted to, say, disband the Catholic board and fold it into the public board."

So, on a lark, I went to check on the criteria for school board candidates and discovered that it's prohibited by law for a non-Catholic to be a Catholic board trustee. On top of that, it's also illegal for a non-Catholic to even vote in an election for a Catholic trustee.

This means that the poor shlub who signs one of those forms for his spouse so that their kids (for reasons that escape me) can go to a Catholic school can't even cast his vote in the elections that will determine how his kid's school board will be run.

I think that Catholic schools are unfair to begin with, but this seems to me to be extra unfair. Not to mention a breach of our Charter equality rights.

There - I'm done ranting. For now.

Forum Upgrade from v4.0.0 to v4.0.1

Chris — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:35:36 GMT

Within the next hour the forum will be shut down while I upgrade from v4.0.0 to v4.0.1. This upgrade will fix over 200 bugs.

Highlights of what�s fixed in 4.0.1:
� [Tab Ordering] Added Tab Index Ordering
� [Search] Added Search Results by Relevancy
� [IE6] Fixed: background images disappear in IE6
� [IE6] Fixed: Additional IE6 bug fixes.
� [IE6] Fixed IE6 issues in CMS home.
� [IE6] Post dates missing in IE6
� [IE6] Forum leaders page
� [IE6] Fixed CP CMS Section edit popup displays under other page elements in IE6.
� [IE8] Fixed post reputation in IE8
� [StyleVar] Fixed StyleVars
� [StyleVar] Added Stylevars for UserCP/Settings
� [Video] Fixed IE8 Bugs
� [Sidebar Blocks] Fixed Sidebar handling of long title names
� [Blogs] Lightbox doesn't work in Blogs including inline images
� [CMS] Fixed CMS Static HTML Widget
� [CMS] Fixed CMS PHP Direct Widget
� [CMS] Fixed CMS Category Bug
� [CMS] Widget Manager - When creating a new widget, widget type pull down should display in alphabetical order
� [CMS] Section Reset Ordering Bug
� [CMS] Please put CMS in /index.php and FORUMS in /forums/index.php
� [CMS] CMS Query Bug - Phase 1
� [Groups] Removed hardcoded phrases in Groups
� [Announcements] Fixed Announcement display problem
� [Smilies] Fixed Smilie Path - Forced to use relative path
� [CSS] user defined Additional CSS to pages
� [CSS] Store CSS as files does not work
� [Sitemap] Sitemap not being Recognized by Google (only Forums)
� [RTL] Problem in What's New Page when change Language R2L
� [RTL] editor icons problem
� [RTL] The new forum home sidebar does not move to the left when viewing the site in a RTL language.
� [RTL] Groups issues
� [RTL] Fixed RTL and IE7
� [Style Manager] Unchecking style in Style Manager causes style issues
� ...and about 200 more bugs

For more details, see original post at vBulletin.com

What's Sally Ann got that we don't got?

Penguin — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:04:11 GMT

Every Christmas, when I go to the mall, I get discouraged and a bit angry. It's those red Salvation Army buckets.

I'm not mad at the Salvation Army, though. I'm mad at you. And me. And all the other non-theists and secularists who have dropped the ball to the extent that this evangelical Christian church has become, in their words (which I suspect are correct), "the largest non-governmental direct provider of social services in Canada".

The problem I see isn't that the Salvation Army has stepped up to meet needs in our communities. The problem is that all of us have failed to meet these needs ourselves. This has created a situation where now in many places in our country, there are few if any options for us to make a donation that will help the homeless, for instance, without putting money in the hands of a group that's opposed to same-sex marriage, runs its own evangelical Christian college, and holds other positions that are likely to not align with the views of many people who just wants to chip in a few bucks to make sure someone will have a hot meal and a warm bed for the night.

This is just one example of a larger phenomenon I've seen: there are plenty of Christian charities, but very few atheistic ones. But why should that be? Why would people who think that suffering is part of "God's plan" and who think that Jesus Christ will be coming down from Heaven to make everything right in the world be more inclined to do acts of charity than a group of people who generally don't think human suffering has any intrinsic purpose and, by definition, don't think they can rely on some deity to clean up our social messes?

Or is this based on a false assumption? Do atheists just tend to do their charity quietly?

Either way, I think it would be a good thing for atheists to be more visible doing good works in the community, and making it clear to everyone why they're doing it: that it's useless to wait for some cosmic force to make everything right, so if we want a better world, it's up to us to make it.

A healthy dose of Faith.

Mayrzeal — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:14:56 GMT

Faith, they keystone for religion.

I am not going to talk about why everysone should be a Christian, heck, i'd even bore my self with it.
Im telling my storie in this blog here.
In the hope that anyone who reads this, understands me a bit better and gets to know me.

Well to do that we'll have to dig in my past, but first, propper introductions!

My name is Martijn, its a Dutch name, as i've noticed when i went abroad, so i came up with a name for my self which i thought people got pronounce a better/easier and could be used as my artistian alias. thus was the name:
Mayrzeal born.

I live, grew up and work in Boxtel, the Netherlands.
A town with friendly inhabitants and more multicultural that America self.

For example, Arabic, Polish, Greek, English, moluk's, Surinamian, Turkish, Marocan and many many more inhabitans.

Since the Netherlands has a somewhat "opendoor" policy for foreigners we are blessed with many differant Cultures in single town.

Now as for the religion part: My parenst are bot Christian, my Grandmother and GrandFather on my dad's are both Roman Catholic, as on my mom's side are both Catholic's. My neighbours were (since they moved) Protestant.

I grew up at openschool (no matter who you/what you are, youwelcome,there for in school we learned more about differant culture and religion. So when we were discovering Faith at my school, all the kids were asked if they wanted to do there "Communion".
It's a sort of like ritual of acknowledging your a Christian and that you want to be part of this community.

Your parents perhaps baptised you as a child, at this age you are to make your own choice.

Some afcourse did, some did not.

I for 1 choose to do it and see what it all about.

As i started with my preperation of this whole happening, we got to learn about religion. We discussed the Bible with a priest and some parents, talked about God and the world as it is. And here is were i think i got a liking to Religion.

And in the way it was brought to me, i could learn all about it when and if i wanted to.
At times i was full with all the talking afcourse, all that preeching.

But, as i sat down with the priest, talking things over, i could not resist to ask him, why did he choose to belive in God, when him nor i ever seen Him.

He simply said:
I belive in the good of men, i belive that love in the world is a good thing. I belive that the 10 ammedments are the way to live. There for, i belive in God.

God does not have to be a man that sits in the clouds, i belive He's is present in you and me and that every action we make see if it contradicts with God's rules.
Talking more and more about faith and religion made me realise, there were plenty parts in the Holy Bible i din't belive, but i did figure out that there were many stories about differant lesson's about life and all it is.
Problems, joy's everything. That gave me strenght when i read the Holy Bible.

Now i was more interested in Gabriel about how he smite down Satan at that time, Everything combined, learing about Religion in general, talking it all over discussing
every aspect made me more and more interested.

Later on, a few years later, i met a guy, named Avsar,
who was going to be my Best friend till this very day.

He's Turkish, Muslim and a heck of a guy.
He grew up in similar conditions like my self, there for was open minded like my self.
About religion, the world, history etc.

Perhaps in a other part of the world i would not like him, or him me, because we were of a differant religion.

But in this scenario we were both openminded and interested in each other way of life, relgion, history (of the Ottoman Empire and The Netherlands).

So what i've all learned from my life so far, is to keep a openmind to the world, yourself and others. That i should not judge anyone and at the same time.

So, guided by God and the 10 amendments, my dear family and friends i look at life with each aspect.

Now this is a real art, for there are many people who still think, all Muslims are butchers and terrorist. That all Fathes molest childeren.

(people who claim to be muslim and blow up stuff in the name of Allah are not considered Muslim).

Religion it self its a beautiful thing, It's lifeslessons can help out in difficult times, but there are times when you have to say, hmm ill take that in question, or admit that somethings your church has done wrong, as the inqusition for example. But that has been done by corrupted man, who take it to the extreem (extreemists)
and therefor forgetting the basic rules.

So ill leave you with this, at the end of my life
When truth shows it self, if there is a God, i lived well, If God turns out that the right way to woreship him was as being a muslim for example, then �ven He can't touch me, for i never stole, raped or did any of those nasty things but always loved my fellow person, and treated my fellow man as i wish to be treated.

And if there is no God, only... empty space or, energy then what harm have i done? I lived my life well and because in the name of "God".

So, i bid you all a
Salem Alycum and God be with you.

Peace!

- Martijn.

What to teach our children?

Svetlana — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:41:07 GMT

I was in situation to need to defend Dawkins� argument in which he argues that it�s wrong to teach children to be Muslim, Christian or Jewish.

"Do not ever call a child a Muslim child or a Christian child � that is a form of child abuse because a young child is too young to know what its views are about the cosmos or morality.
"It is evil to describe a child as a Muslim child or a Christian child. I think labelling children is child abuse and I think there is a very heavy issue, for example, about teaching about hell and torturing their minds with hell.
"It's a form of child abuse, even worse than physical child abuse. I wouldn't want to teach a young child, a terrifyingly young child, about hell when he dies, as it's as bad as many forms of physical abuse."

When I was talking to a friend of mine about this, she asked me what would give me the right then to raise my children as atheists (my argument was, that they should decide when they are ready to decide what they want to be). Partially she is right. Even though I know I will raise my children as atheists, but what you think would be a moral way to do it (or how to defend a theory that it is better to raise children as atheists)? What would be fair to teach our children in order that they are able to decide on their own when they grow up?

Computers

Christian Soldier — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 07:59:54 GMT

I thought it would be a good idea for us to share what we know about computer. From good downloads(like anti-virus) to tricks on word. Hope you guys enjoy.